Top of the World, Ma!

Madame Blavatsky

DATELINE: Mahatmas & Other Spirits

For the 16thseason of Ancient Aliens we are going sky-high in Tibet, the ceiling of the planet where you are closer to the unknown fly-bys that have christened the population.

The location of a Shangri-La city high up on the roof of the world brings together many legends: physical and non-physical beings who lived for hundreds of years and live with little oxygen.

Of course, this series always goes for the jugular of most outrage: such as the Yeti Snowmen are magical extra-terrestrials. And those who live in that spot where Mount Everest reaches over five miles high are somehow more enlightened than the rest of us. This place is an airport of UFOs from all parts of the universe.

The series offered an insight into Madame Blavatsky, the theosophist who had befriended Mahatma Gandhi. She believed she was in contact with a spiritual creature that she called a Mahatma, or ancient alien being from another dimension.

Her circle included young artist Nicholas Roerich who worked with the Diaghilev ballet around 1910 in Paris. He worked on designs for Nijinsky ballets. He later moved to New York and conducted research in India and Tibet.

The Nazi research connection to Tibet in the 1930s included finding an old iron statue with a swastika on the figure depicted, a Mahatma. In the 21st century, tests on the figure indicated he was sculpted out of a meteorite that likely landed in Tibet.

Experts on the episode revealed a new word, Ultra-terrestrial to describe these travelers of the universe who use Yeti as the guardians to protect their secret base beneath the Himalayan Mountains

 Nicholas Roerich

On the Trail….Bigfoot (Again)

Bullets Bounce Off his Chest

DATELINE: Historical Track 

After a plethora of Bigfoot films, perhaps rivaling the numerous sightings, one grabbed our attention for its historical look at the topic. Well, that is novel and unusual in the spate of witness accounts.

On the Trail of…Bigfoot.

This little documentary wants to take us back to the roots in pioneer America, and it does contain many morsels hitherto not reported widely. And, you must couple that with breathtaking scenes of miles of forestland around the country.

One of the first stops is Ohio, hardly a place you’d think Bigfoot would be seen: yet there are some fairly wooded areas and some fairly surprising tales.

Back in the first-half of the 19thcentury the newspapers knew a good thing to sell the slow news day:  but they did not call this creature Bigfoot. That was years away.  He was known as The Wild Man, or the Mountain Devil. He was a creature shockingly naked and hairy. Of course, some of the more prudish newspapers had him putting on some clothes. We rather think this a convention to keep readers from too much shock.

The monster had been reported in late 19thcentury after discovery of the gorilla in Africa. Groups of thse mountain devils attacked prospectors regularly. The big galoot was impervious to bullets.

Produced by Seth Breedlove, this film is intelligent and careful, tries to be objective, and manages to be original in the process.

The Pacific Northwest started the “Bigfoot” verbiage when lumberjacks found bare footprints around their logging equipment and publicized it. It took till the 1970s before the phenomenon moved eastward again, with the Minerva Monster of Ohio.

However, the Abominable Snowman (from the 1920s) took hold in American movies and that sparked an Americanized form. The major characteristics developed quickly, though eastern versions were more aggressive and hostile.

By the 1990s, you had a merging of Bigfoot and UFOs—and the evolution of a legend reached a new apex. This fascinating documentary is worth your time, from 2018.

 

Nazis Versus Aliens? Not Exactly

DATELINE: Help from Another Galaxy

A group of people in uniform

Description automatically generated
Von Braun with Nazis

This mishmash uses a title that suggests that the Nazis and space aliens were opponent. However, the film more fittingly states that the visitors from outer space helped the Nazis and supported them. It is a horrid thought that these creatures are not exactly out to help humankind but support letting factions on Earth kill each other.

Here is another misnomer and misleader when it comes to Nazi approval. This time the special from American Heroes Channel, no less, uses a minor connection to Nazi Wonder Weapons to lead into 21sttechnology.

If you are looking for some kind of competition or rivalry between Nazi technology and alien visitors, you won’t find anything like that under the false advertising of this deceptive documentary.

There is some theory espoused that the Nazi scientists were visionaries. Forget any hints that they used concentration camp labor to death to accomplish whatever last minute inventions were in their evil arsenal. Speer and Von Braun are not held accountable.

No attempt is made to delineate Nazism with anything bad, only with progress The so-called experts are young exuberant “journalists” who seem to be salivating over the Nazi “accomplishments.” This film could be endorsed by the Proud Boys as they threaten to kidnap and to kill female governors in the U.S..

But then this execrable doc notes the United States went in a different direction to create the greatest war progress with an atomic bomb. So, right there, you have no connection between the Nazi flying wings and stealth aircraft and American technology.

Then, you throw in the Soviet espionage. Nothing is said of either side capturing , then using former Nazi scientists to jump-start their weapons programs. This film ignores whatever seems to impede its bizarre narrative chronology.

As bad documentaries go, this one has better production values, but worse historical sense and logic. After telling us that the military was flying balloons (the Roswell crash was one) to check on Soviet nuclear explosions. Then, the nation is surprised? 

The show then draws a parallel between Soviet Red Menace and UFOs. Not Nazis. They show photos of Werner von Braun, but glossing over that he was a Nazi scientist. The focus of the program is the Space Race of the 1950s and 1960s, creating Area 51, a cryptic Soviet style base.

This scattershot approach tackles everything.

Add this to the growing list of ahistorical assessments of Nazis by 21stcentury ahistorians. Just appalling.

UFOs: The Secret History

DATELINE: (well, not so secret)

Be Still, My Earth.

Though it is billed as having new information, it really has only a new and amusing perspective.  The film is irreverent in many ways, through use of movie clips and the laconic narration of its clever director.

We are happy to report that, unlike many cheapskate directors who save money by doing their own voice-overs, this director is actually a fairly good voice and speaks with intelligence and drama. David Cherniak directs with aplomb. He also led the film for the recent look at Bob Lazar in late middle age, revisited. Don’t hold it against him.

UFOs: The Secret History  is indeed a history, but with few secrets. It does have a plethora of marvelous clips from classic sci-fi films as part of its narrative.

His hilarious insights that are new include the notorious “pelican” theory that Kenneth Arnold in 1947 actually saw pelicans flying in formation at 1700 mph and called them saucers.

Yes, a scientist tells us this with a straight face.

When it comes to more serious matters, director David Cherniak still chooses photos that are unusual, not ones you’d see on Ancient Aliens. He does give us a a fresh take on Orson Welles, Roswell, Project Grudge, and the usual litany of UFO incidents that brought us to a wholesale government coverup.

He also plays on the notion that seeing UFOs was psychological, part of the J. Allen Hynek approach, which was code for saying the viewer of such events had a psychological problem. Even Hynek was turned into a buffoon over “swamp gas.” Well, yes, being called a nutcase is distressing.

One turning point is hardly secret: abductions of Betty and Barney Hill of New Hampshire, the template for lost time and sexual abuse by space creatures.  There is no secret about the Travis Walton case, but it grabbed worldwide attention, as did the appearance of elderly Jesse Marcel who was at the Roswell crash in 1947, blowing the whistle.

If there is a secret here, that may be the hybridization plan of aliens to take over the Earth in subtle fashion by genetics. Oh, that secret…

 

 

 

 

 

Unidentified Finale, Part 2

DATELINE: Biting Audience Hand

 Elizondo

The series may smell its own doom and climbs out of the box in which it has placed itself for two seasons:  instead of video footage of UFOs, the show switched to alien abduction stories.

Lou Elizondo calls abduction of Americans an “act of war,” and an attempt to regain audience support. Like John Casey on World War 2 Gold, Lou Elizondo may be pushing out his costars. He takes the reins completely in the final two shows of the season.

The victims of close encounters are all, of course, former military non-coms who have retired and now are willing to speak their stories. Nearly all are serving at nuclear facilities when they had their bad meetings and missing time.

At least one witness adds a new wrinkle: that the UFO was gaseous with no sharp edges and had changing colors. The witness was left with odd burns from the encounter, but military tests are never shared with him.

These vets often mention black-outs and sleep paralysis.

Host Elizondo talks to one expert, Dr. Susan Clancy, who completely shreds and debunks all these witness experiences as “false memory.” Elizondo readily accepts this.

She insists that the belief of these memories is important for validation for an individual whose life is devoid of meaning. She also takes a shot at Dr. John Mack of Harvard who came to accept abduction as real.

In a last-ditch effort to throw a sop to the fans who usually are faithful to these kind of shows, Elizondo claims there are real physical effects to these witnesses. It may be too little too late.

Elizondo notes that there are six billion earth-like planets in the galaxy and may have “brothers and sisters” of the human race. The final few minutes become a desperate plea to continue the investigations, but History channel may more than likely pull the plug on this series.

UFO Cover Up on Unidentified

DATELINE: Mellon as Head of Ops

We’re not sure who’s covering up what and if you think you will have clarification on this series, Unidentified, which delineates military investigators and UFO cases, you will find yourself going down (or up) another rabbit hole.

Our intrepid hosts, insiders at the Pentagon, who are tied into the Navy release of actual pilot video of mystery craft in the sky, will not exactly give you the answer you want.

This series may have just realized it is poisoning its own audience with listening to UFO drivel (or alternative theories) it never believed to begin with: the experts cited continued to say that all UFO stuff is disinformation put out over their secret programs, including drones that now shoot out of submarines and return to their source under water. It explains submerged craft or USOs.

The military apologists also contend that the radar is now filled with technical ghosts, phantoms that appear on screen but are not real to hide the real aircraft.

And the AF is playing mind games with the US Navy, taking their information after eating them up with experimental encounters with mystery UFO-but really US top secret aircraft.

If the technology is far superior to anything belonging to the US government (as host Skip to My Lu Elizondo contends), we are in big trouble. The is now on the defensive or is that offensive, attacking the government who feeds it for hiding more videos.  Information at the Pentagon is now routinely confiscated by Air Force honchos, riding roughshod over other military branches.

So the series is fighting back to retain its unhappy UFO audience who are fervent believers. The hosts now claim that is is impossible that Area 51 is a base of fake UFO operations and saucers that are of this Earth, not so galaxy far far away.

We’ll see if this response is too little too late to save the series from becoming a coverup in itself.

Planetary Threat in South America?

DATELINE: Unidentified Breaks Mold!

 Chinese Base in S.A.

What the hell is going on? China has a paramilitary spy network in Argentina?

The next episode of  Identified. called itself “Planetary Threat,” and it was a tad different than the previous season and earlier in the second season..

The series put its focus outside the United States military, or so it appeared at first. The show sent host and former Pentagon AATIP point-man, Luis Elizondo, to Peru and Argentina.

More experts insist that the US has secret technology hiding under the guise of UFOs. They even claim groups like MUFON are government covers for spying.

He remained in contact with military people, but this seemed a great departure of the routine of the early episodes that tended to repeat itself with different pilots in different places being in contact with tick-tack UFOs.

Elizondo finds the military in South American countries are far more open—and they see global problems. From top to bottom, military regimes in Peru and Argentina and Uruguay will talk quite bluntly. Yet, Elizondo also goes out to Patagonia to talk to simple residents about their experiences.

You might ask what gives? Yet, it soon becomes apparent when Elizondo discovers China has a secret surveillance system built in the most remote area of Argentina, allegedly for their Moon mission. Elizondo is suspicious. This could be a means to survey the United States.

Then, the bombshells fall:  it seems the US encouraged and supported UFO programs in South America, where information can be kept quiet and away from media. It also means that data is shared with American Pentagon people. It is a clever move to hide information.

Most interesting too, Elizondo is asked point-blank if he believed in the reality of UFOs, and to a bit of a surprise, he hemmed and hawed, refusing to give an answer. Finally, he claimed he wanted to maintain objectivity.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Triangulated Triangles: Identified

DATELINE: Unidentified: America’s UFOs

The use of triangle shaped craft by some entity seems to have gained traction on the series Unidentified: America’s UFO Investigations.

 

In the second episode of the second season, AATIP’s Luis Elizondo and Chris Mellen tackle the issue of mysterious black triangles now dominating the UFO scene.

For decades we have heard of saucers, then orbs, then tick-tacks. Now we find that the predominant military sightings are of silent, slow-moving craft of varying sizes, some as big as football fields. They are usually cloaked from radar. We can only note that most triangular shaped ships are designed by terrestrials here on earth.

Why would extra-terrestrials simply change their design in the past few decades? It’s illogical, if not unlikely. Of course, those saucers were crashing all over earth for decades. Perhaps the space creatures have smartened up and are designing safer space crafts.

Once again, notably, the witnesses are all highly reliable and credible military men who have retired and are now willing to come forward. It gives this show far more believability than so many others.

Mellen’s troubling conclusions are that, if unknown visitors are inspecting American territory, there is a big problem of national security and motives.

In the 1980s a massive sighting occurred over the Hudson Valley, not far from New York City. No one can fathom the legal and moral decision of the government to fly experimental craft over a populated area. It leads to a frightful conclusion: they are not US airships.

It is ultimately a distressing conclusion that these triangular ships could be like Cortes landing among the Aztecs. They had no idea how dangerous and deadly to their civilization this interloper would become.

Unidentified: UFO Investigations

DATELINE: Second Season UFO Investigations

 Elizondo.

You could surely knock us over with the return of this series. Now in a second season, Unidentified: Inside America’s UFO Investigations was certainly one of the interesting miniseries History provided last year. It featured two prominent former government officials: Chris Mellen, a defense minister and Luis Elizondo who ran the Pentagon UFO program that released actual UFO footage to great excitement.

We did not expect to see it again.

Luis Elizondo was in charge of the notorious AATIP program at the Pentagon.

The first show of the new season entails “UFOs in Combat,” though it only tackles living witnesses of the past fifty years, we know that orbs in World War II were inexplicable and thought to be Nazi weapons.

Now both men who are key hosts of this series have left the government to seek fame and fortune as informants of the UFO phenomenon. They are likely the most interesting, if not trustworthy, of experts these kind of shows present.

Elizondo interviews decorated American soldiers from wars of the past 50 years, going back to 1966 Vietnam. Here, in case after case, they witness these “tick-tacks” an allusion to the shape of the object. They are elongated or circular like an orb.

One expert calls them part of the 21stcentury technology or “angels” that are decoy devices around aircraft to deflect missile attacks. But this technology does not extend back 20 years, where it has been witnessed.

Another expert essentially questioned the mental stress of these patriots and claimed they were suffering from lack of sleep, fear, and other factors. The show’s hosts reject this out of hand.

The series seems to be covering the same ground as in the first season, but it is cracking open new testimony and information.

Claire Denis: High Life Tumbles

DATELINE: Pattinson Finds His Spacesuit! 

 Rocket Man, Not !

The latest film by auteur and brilliant director Claire Denis is not her best, but it is original, bizarre, and will find admirers among the critical set. High Life sets a tone and standard for sci-fi that seems sci-unfit.

However, High Life is more original than your sci-fi audience may want. This is not on the level of Kubrick tackling the topic. It is anti-science fiction: philosophical and idiosyncratic. Forward is going backward from Earth.

 

If Robert Pattinson has selected it, you know you are in for something different. He knows how to pick unusual movies.

The narrative storyline is something about a father raising his infant daughter alone on a spaceship hurtling toward a black hole.

You know you are in arthouse territory when the title of the film flashes 18minutes into the story. We slowly discern the rest of the crew is dead—and therein is the tale of sexual tension with malcontents on a ship going nowhere at nine-tenths the speed of light.

Somewhere around half-way into the movie, we find the kink foundation and disturbing fact that these are actually delinquent prisoners unethically sent out as guinea pigs with no hope of return.

Their fate is not exactly happy, and their problematic lives merely make the inevitable tragedy. In the meantime, Pattinson is a curio, ageless and aging as his daughter grows up. Their goal of a black hole is referred to as an alligator eye, but it is the bullseye of bull. This dark, dour film has convinced some it is a masterpiece.

For others, it is simply so far out there that it defies comprehension. Critical reaction is all over the landscape and under the sun.

Skinwalker Reaches Its Finale

DATELINE: Begging for another season?

Abandoned Homestead at Skinwalker!

This dubious series has reached its first-year contract with History Channel: they have done eight obligatory episodes. Whether there will be more, we may not know until the time for another season is upon us.

 

History Channel works in mysterious ways. This show, Secret of Skinwalker Ranch, has now given Dr. Travis Taylor his moment of revenge on the nitwits who have hampered him for eight episodes. He reveals that those mysterious copters overhead are the intelligence force of the United States, or so claim.

 

They have brought on Linda Moulton Howe for the final two episodes, and she has a wealth of info about cattle mutilations as she observes footage of a craft hovering above a dying cow.

Howe believes they interrupted a broad daylight mutilation in the making. The dead cow is dragged off for predators to eat, but not one has touched the dead animal.

As part of the self-congratulations, Brandon Fuglar brings in the Utah Attorney General to thank the Skinwalker crew for all they are doing to safeguard the public! Hunh?

At the Fuglar billionaire headquarters, the group assembles to re-hash the events of the previous episodes. What it becomes in its own strange way, is a plea to the powers at History Channel to allow them to continue investigating next season.

The Disneyland of Paranormal tries to recap its high points, but never are too far off the ground.

 

Travis Taylor makes his bold and arcane announcement that unidentified agencies are interested in their findings. He is so vague we almost want to ask what country contacted him.

 

Each member of the team professes how much he has changed since the show started. It’s more than the audience can say.

Tom Brady at Skinwalker Ranch

Tom Brady at Skinwalker Ranch

Brady’s Custom Spaceship Now for Sale!

Tom Brady continues to divest himself of all things New England. Latest is his used vehicle, a customized spaceship that brings heart-warming memories back to the aging quarterback.

It can be yours for $300,000. Not since the Aaron Hernandez Death-Mobile went up for sale on eBay has there been such a chance for Patriots fans.

Among the amenities, this vehicle is super re-enforced to protect Brady against bad New England drivers. You may not recall he was involved in a car crash on the way to Gillette Stadium early in his career. After that, he wanted super-reinforced electromagnetic, interdimensional protections.

Now we presumed he worried about terrorists and kidnappers against his family, but now living in Trump country where there are no taxes and Gulf Breeze is a familiar jumping off point, he no longer needs insured protection: unless it is against space abductions by rival aliens and lost time (an important commodity for Tom).

Yes, the vehicle exceeds all U.S. Crush and Crash Resistance Laws. Unfortunately, this gas guzzler will need plenty of fuel as it goes about 3000 feet on a gallon of high octane.

This vehicle has propulsion that can travel to the stars with stars: it’s not just another pimpmobile where Julie Edelman and cronies can pile in.

Yes, this vehicle can transcend warp speed and has even been seen emerging from orange portals at Skinwalker Ranch, lending credence to the notion that Tom Brady is a shape-shifter as well as a shifty guy.

The custom seating will accommodate Brady in whatever form he takes in his universal time travels. Oh, yes, this car exceeds the DeLorean abilities of going back to the future. Tom has maintained his youthful appearance by using the vehicle as a hyperbolic time chamber in his copper-fused pajama spacesuit.

There is enough headroom in this vehicle that the Apollo astronauts would be envious.

Though it has been deceptively created to appear to be a Cadillac Escalade, it is a vehicle once filmed by AATIP jet pilots on scramble over Catalina Island.

Among standard modifications are six-way electro-magnetic chargers that gently provide you with immortality while reclining in the electric leg rests.

“Parting ways with my UFO won’t be easy. From day one it became my sanctuary from the outside noise,” the Tompa Bay Buccaneer star is quoted as saying in the listing. He hopes that the next owner will feel like Superman, a strange visitor from another planet who may also use the disguise of an NFL GOAT to hide his true identity.

 

Hunt for Elusive Unitah Skinwalker

DATELINE: Pre-TV Series

 Knapp Time.

 Two years previous to the History Channel series, the “paranormal investigator” named Jeremy Corbell took on the subject with his viewpoint. He rounded up George Knapp who had done 20 years of research—including work with Robert Bigelow before he sold the ranch and its rights to the new TV series owner.

The film is called Hunt for the Skinwalker.

Skinwalker Ranch is a paranormal Disneyland, according to this movie.

Corbell intones like he is Rod Serling stealing Twilight Zone phrases in his narrative. He found his matchmate in George Knapp, aging and renewed UFO hunter for decades. Knapp has boxes of old videotaped interviews and paper documents. Korbell won fame by bringing Bob Lazar out of hiding a few years ago to give an updated opinion on Area 51.

This is George Knapp’s seminall life work, apparently never digitized nor copied for posterity. Videos were never made into DVD and audio tape look like you couldn’t find the proper equipment to play them. No one has looked at this material in years. Now, the Hunt for the Skinwalker will make an attempt. It’s clearly enough to spark History Channel’s interest in doing a series two years later.

Korbell likens the area to “Area 52” and largely lets dramatic Knapp do narration duty. He knows how to make mystery more bizarre, for sure.

Knapp related the story of how he tried to do everything to provoke the poltergeist, UFOs, ghosts, orbs, or other phenomena, to no avail, even doing some forbidden digging. He was attacked only by mosquitos. He also knew Robert Bigelow and reveals that the strange billionaire did not want the associated horrors beyond UFOs. He indicated that Bigelow was warned off the property—and sold it to Brandon Fuglar.

Fulgar shows up in this film, refusing to identify himself because it would hurt his business “empire,” which is Fuglar to a T. However, something changed his mind between making this Corbell movie and the History series.

Here the cattle mutilations and other worldly voices are given far more attention.

Neither Corbell, nor Knapp, has any participation in the TV series. And, the movie is far better than the Fuglar produced show.

 

 

 Travis Walton Story

DATELINE: Kidnapped by Aliens. 

 Two Famous UFO figures.

Apart from flashy Hollywood rendering or re-enactments on Ancient Aliens, it is refreshing to find a low-budget documentary that tries to explain what happened when the young Arizona logger was abducted by space aliens in the 1970s. This extraordinary film is called Travis.

With many newsreel footage, archival photos, and then interviews with aging witnesses, you have a real picture of the people who were frightened and terrorized by the events way back when.

As a bonus, there is Travis Walton himself, now explaining rationally the incredible experience he underwent. As his brother tells, Travis never pulled a practical joke in his life. Yet, many in Snowflake, his hometown, disbelieved him, thought he faked it all.

The young men were too blue-collar, too un-educated to have any credibility. They must have been on drugs or drunk out in the woods, after a day of clearing the Ponderosa pines. Their polygraphs were so honest that it would have been a million to one odds that their story was false.

Polygraphs, government intimidators, and the like, dog the men. The police cannot be blamed for trying to be objective and discover if there was a fraud. However, it was clear that no one wanted that kind of fame, or trouble.

The film is refreshing to say the least—and devoid of the usual “experts” pontificating (Richard Dolan excepted). Young Travis in 1975 came to the attention of two important people in UFO research: Dr. J. Allen Hyneck and Dr. Stanton Friedman.

 Going back to the area in 2014, researchers discovered that the trees exposed to radiation had grown in the direction of the source, jutting out weirdly. The other place this occurred was Chernobyl.

For most of his life Travis was vilified by hired guns of secret government agencies, so called debunkers like Phillip Klass, a paid character assassin. Walton is an articulate, intelligent, sensitive man who has suffered like Betty Hill, as the two most famous abductees in history of space aliens.

Most people who know, met, or dealt with Travis Walton consider him intelligent, fair, honest, and courageous. He is a man to whom a horrid experience was involuntarily put upon him. Few could have handled it with such grace under pressure.

 This is a sober, outstanding film that needed to be made for posterity.

Afraid of Nothing or Nothingness?

DATELINE:  Paranormal in Salem, MA!

 Director Robert Heske.

Bob Heske is a writer/director of low-budget stories, and his major documentary film is called Afraid of Nothing.Its appeal on some levels is all the small businesses associated with spirit life and death (from Ouija board historians and prosthetic mask shops to healers of all stripes who meet people for various paranormal purposes.

The film spent considerable time in Salem, Massachusetts, which is a hotbed of witchcraft and afterlife experts. Also included in the visits are East Bridgewater, Mass., and Gardner, Mass. All three locations are adjacent and contiguous owns where this writer lived.

As someone who lives in a haunted house, we are always curious about others and what they experience: to that end we meet regression specialists, healers and teachers of how to deal with death. The big wheel involved here is Jeff Belanger who created the Ghost AdventuresTV series and has cornered the market on paranormal topics in New England.

An actor from Los Angeles is at the crux of people here, as he lived a previous life in Salem—and has been drawn to return to the area of Salem Willows, an old haunt.

All these many individuals have achieved some level of connection to the great beyond—and all seem to have multiple talents to connect with both positive and negative forces. It astounds us—as we have only one spirit in the house, though he is a big one, a victim of Titanic.

We have learned late in life that we have some still unknown connection to this guide and mentor who is a guardian spirit. So, we hardly disparage all the kind souls who show up in Bob Heske’s little film. It is not frightful or horrific, but it is informative and fascinating for those with an interest in the hereafter.